Monday, November 19, 2012

Hashu Blog: Old Guard?

Recently Boopa on Kugutsmen made a comment about 'Old Guard' FCs within CVA.

Hidetoshi wanted to bring CVA into 2012. He wasn't the best FC in the game or even top-tier, however, he was better than anything else the coalition has sitting around. The old guard FC's (who collectively call themselves the Warhawk Generals, FFS) kept talking shit to him and trying to undercut his initiatives. He got frustrated and left. So now we're left with old dogs like Wildcard Trek and Sollana, who are both garbage as people and FC's.

Not a failcascade, but not a positive development either. (

As a member of Imperial Dreams, and CVA for almost five and a half years, I found this comment really amusing.  Why?  Because every single FC that he was talking about who had anything to do with the subject at hand had been members of CVA for a max of perhaps two years.  Infact our current FC manager has only been a part of CVA for a year and a half.  Yes I realize in most alliances that longevity would be considered Old Guard.  But for an alliance that has existed since the dawn of Alliances, whats a couple years?

So how do I break down "CVA" ' s Old Guard?  Well I tend to break it down into Old/Middle/New Guards'.  In fact I could probably break each of those into a High and Low if I wanted too.  Each 'breakdown,' I feel, has a distinct difference in expectations from the individuals who joined during those eras and in their views on what "CVA" is all about.

Old Guard
CVA Old Guard is ancient and archaic.  The 'Old Guard' has historically been used to refer to members of CVA who joined prior to the fall of 9UY and the successful reclaiming of Providence.  These folks were hardline amarrian loyalists.  Their priorities were for the empire and the expanding of Holy Amarr.  Within this catagory you could also split into High Old Guard and Low Old Guard.  High Old Guard can refer to members who joined while the alliance was still restricted to Ammarian characters while Low Old Guard can refer to members who joined after that restriction was listed.  (I believe Garreck and AMDEF would be the first group of "Low Old Guard").

Middle Guard
Middle Guard is the group that I as an individual relate to.  To me this generally refers to any one individual or group that joined CVA between the Fall of 9uy and the loss of Providence to the Southern Coalition.  I can break the Middle Guard into a High and Low grouping as well.  In this case the difference is less of a specific time and more split along the lines of attitude and values.  High Middle Guard are individuals and groups who for the most part joined CVA fairly close to the fall of 9uy (I joined Imperial Dreams the week after 9uy fell for example).  During this time most new individuals still held fairly strong amarrian loyalists values and tendencies.  Golden Fleets meant something, and we had little to worry about politically coming from other Null Sec groups as we had a strong connection to IAC and Sylph on our Catch Border.  While High Middle Guard were loyalist and still Amarrian focused.  The Low Middle Guard can be viewed as more Null-Sec and NRDS focused.  During this time the emphasis of new members slowly shifted from being amarrians to being NRDS pushers.  New groups were also less "loyalist" orientated and much more 0.0 focused.

New Guard
In my eyes the 'New Guard' are for the most part individuals and corporations that joined during the Squatter Wars and after the Reconquista of Providence.  With perhaps two exceptions on a corporation level, new corporations have nearly nothing to do with being amarrian loyalists nor do they have any interst.  New Guard tend to be completely Null-Sec orientated, many even bemoaning Fleet Ops that happen in low-sec.

There really is less of a reason or difference amongst 'new guard' groups to separate into a high/low group at this point but as time goes on and 'new new guards' form bemoaning 'old guards' who are themselves fairly new, differences will be sure to emerge.

In conclusion, the folks who bemoan the 'old guard' today really are just complaining about the previous group that came before them, who themselves likely complained about 'the old guard.'
Most people who would be old guard according to my definitions stopped played or have removed themselves from positions of power years ago.  The current power structure of CVA is for the most part in the hands of 'Middle' Guard and 'New' Guard individuals.  However despite that there is still the ever-present feeling of 'the old guard' looking over your shoulder and keeping you in line and I recognize for newer groups who come into the 'system' this can be very uncomfortable.  The best advice I can give you is just stick with it, even if you bump heads, eventually someone newer will come along and they will likely have the same opinions of you.


  1. Nice post and I can see some parallels within other organizations.

  2. Eeek! Old Guard? You put up a picture like that and then use references like Old and Middle? Let us not confuse that guy in the red coat for an Old Guardsmen!

    Old Guard -

    Another division existed in distinguishing the experienced veterans from less experienced members of the Guard the group's division into the Old Guard, Middle Guard and Young Guard.

    History junky


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